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had a two-fold intent, which was to create a role model in the idea of a girl who's a genuine leader and the role model in a man who is not only comfortable, but turned on by that. (Joss Whedon)

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.::..:::SPUFFY FOREVER.::..:::

Discussion Forum

Does Spike need a Soul? 9 Replies

Started by latoya. Last reply by cil domney Sep 1, 2014.

Essays & Articles 37 Replies

Started by cil domney. Last reply by cil domney Apr 21, 2014.

Spuffy Season 6 Dailies 40 Replies

Started by Veiriti. Last reply by Isis Nocturne Feb 2, 2013.


Started by Itoy247. Last reply by Isis Nocturne Dec 17, 2011.

The Important Spuffy Episodes Discussion 47 Replies

Started by Lulurose. Last reply by cil domney Jun 19, 2011.

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Comment by Sidhlairiel on May 13, 2010 at 5:47pm
Lovin' all the discussion in this group! I've been reading the past week or so with much interest ^_^

I agree with everyone else on the total frustration with Meltzer's comments. It is obvious he is painfully pro-Bangel and the things he comes out with aren't just biased, they are extremely rude and obnoxious. I am offended whenever I read them and they're even ruining my love of the original show. His whole spiel about 'what Buffy needs and not what you want' is a prime example of that. He seems to have this completely false perception of who Buffy actually is. It is obvious he is warping her personality to fit around the story he wishes to tell, and anyone who disagrees with him is a silly shipper who has no grasp on his perfect vision. It is getting more and more obvious that the original team who wrote the TV show worked together well and made compromises so that logic would rule the day. I miss Jane Espenson =\

He also seems completely clueless as to Buffy canon post-season 3, not to mention the fact that Spuffy is by far the more popular pairing of the two. So who is being served with his assertions that Bangel rules all? Only himself and the vocal minority of Bangels who demand to have their ship validated time and time again. It's not enough for them to get three different romantic reunions after their breakup - they have to get yet another in the comics! And an entire issue of it too. On top of all that they get their reunion written in such a way as to basically dimiss the importance of any other relationships the two of them had because they were weren't 'destiny' or 'truwuv' or any of this other crap. I'm just so sick of this pervading sense of entitlement. It's sickening. Is it not enough that they say time and time again that their love is eternal and transcends everything? Obviously not. Any other competing ship has to be trampled down in the process. It is a slap in the face to every fan who enjoyed the characters of Angel, Buffy and Spike and the journeys of growth and discovery that they went through individually.
Comment by Veiriti on May 13, 2010 at 7:14am
Here is a brilliant picture by Fenderlove – future Spike holding the scythe and his 3 slayers – the Chinese Slayer, Nikki Wood and Buffy.

You can see more of Fenderlove’s art here.
Comment by Veiriti on May 13, 2010 at 5:05am
I do agree with you, Maria, Buffy needs a normal life! Buffy needs to live a normal human life with a normal man next to her and children maybe, not some delusional never-ending life in some fantasy world. But I do not agree Riley or Xander are the right men for her. She doesn’t love them. Riley is her college calf-love and Xander is her best friend. Her truest loves were Spike and Angel… Spike needs a normal life too, to live with a woman who he’s in love. Both of them need each other and it could be possible if Spike gets Shanshu and become a human. Spike DESERVES Shanshu!!! He passed thru lots of apocalyptic battles – Achatla, Glory, First Evil, Senior Partners and the current one which would be a huge battle against the evil. And his is playing the pivotal role in all these battles. That’s after the Shanshu prophesy – a vampire who is playing the pivotal role in the final battle will become a human in the end. I don’t see Angel in that role – as I said in my previous posts, he mostly causes these apocalypses than to stop them. Spike always tried to stop these battles even when was evil even the price of his life. He is THE CHAMPION! He deserves his humanity more than Angel.
As you said Spike’s a real thing in Buffy’s life – Spike got his soul because he loved Buffy and Buffy grew up on Season 7, because she learned to love again.
Here, in the comics, Angel is represented as her teenage fantasy love again, but as we have seen she doesn’t want to live with her fantasy world anymore – she has chosen the real life - Spike is her real adult love and he could being her real life either.
Comment by Maria Lopez - Fiztgerald on May 13, 2010 at 3:45am
I agree whit all of you comments guys.Buffy always wanted to be a normal girl and I think that's the main rason she may wanted to be whit Riley again so that she can leave in her fantasy world again.The same whit Angel she always idealized their relationship and made it into something it wasn't.But I think in Chosen she choose the real thing(Spike) instead of the fantasy world(Angel).I think that's the reason why my favourite season a\as Buffy as a character is s7.I think in the end she grew up.(if we don't count the comics)Or I hope she did.
Comment by Veiriti on May 13, 2010 at 1:58am
I’ve read this Q&A session before. Jeanty is not only an illustrator, he’s a bad illustrator and as I’ve said before I’m suspecting this man haven’t watched the show after season 3, maybe someone told him the story after. So, he’s pro-Bangel, which really annoyed me! But I’m glad that his pro-Bangel comments are getting soft. In my last letter to S. Allie I told him that’s not right the authors and the artist to voiced his opinion and own preferences which could be offensive for some fans.
And there is something else. First Allie said that Spike wouldn’t be a part of Buffy S 8 and the leaked Buffy/Spike panel where they are fighting shoulder by shoulder is a flashback
Actually that’s flashforward and as we’ve seen Spike appeared on B season 8 and he will be a mayor part of it. Maybe with these disproves the creators are trying to cover some spoilers… So I’m trying to be an optimistic about Spike and his future relationship with Buffy…
Comment by Lulurose on May 12, 2010 at 10:53pm
Yes, I agree with that, but it seems that Buffy's "neediness" is a chink in her armor-her Achilles' heel. My observation is that it is what is called an occupational hazard, in many ways. Buffy has been more fortunate than the other slayers, for some reason, because she did have family and friends to give her some moral and emotional support. They have always at least tried to, even though they didn't always-and still don't-understand Buffy's burden. Even with her support, she is still alone in many ways. From what we've been shown and have been told, there is an isolation inherent in being a Slayer that cannot be overcome. Buffy seems to swing from accepting this and exhibiting some maturity to succumbing to the isolation and then making impulsive decisions that have bad consequences for her and everyone else. This cosmic sex fest is another example-in the extreme-of this tendency to make these bad decisions based on her emotional-and other(ahem)needs at the time.

I haven't read all of the Buffy comics, but from what I have read others discuss and say about what the comics dialogue has said, Buffy has indicated several times during this "season" that she's disconnected. She got involved with another young woman, which she had never done, and was at least honest with her, from what I understand, that there would be no emotional connection, because she isn't gay, so Buffy participated in the relationship from a purely physical sensation aspect. She didn't maintain that, if I am not mistaken. She began to feel that she was developing more feelings for Xander than just the close friendship she had always felt, only to find out that Xander now had feelings for her sister, Dawn. So, she's been dealing with her own loneliness, and all the burden of being a slayer in general, plus all the fallout from her decision to share her power. Then, wham! She finds out that the enemy she's been fighting is Angel. At first she is outraged, but he manages to convince her that he hasn't been the total bad guy in this, and that they both are destined to be together by some cosmic confluence of "something" and then she falls right into his arms because of her neediness and this cosmic "thing," whatever it turns out to be. Angel pops up and says what she longs to hear. It is not that I think that Angel was not sincere in his own feelings, but he is misguided at the least, and he hit her at a vulnerable moment. When one is hurting emotionally, it is nice to hear that you are needed, that somebody that is still special to you-at the least-wants to connect with you, in more ways than one. So, she fell for it-totally, because she needed it and wanted it on a level, and then the "universe" stepped in and did, again, whatever it is doing.
So, yes, it does make her look bad, because it is one of her flaws, and, to be fair, it's not something that wasn't there during the series. I have mentioned this elsewhere, but-if they hadn't written Riley's character as having married, it would have been totally in character for Buffy to have gone right smack back into his arms, and Spike would have been left out in the cold, even worse from his POV- as bad as it was for him with Buffy breaking up with him, at least she didn't leave him to run back to Riley or somebody else. Buffy would have done this knowing full well that, way down deep, the same stuff that came between she and Riley would have, at least from her part, done it again, because Riley still probably couldn't take that back seat behind her slayer duties. When she feels insecure, needy, and, more importantly, "unloved"(I know, I believe that Spike loved her, but she didn't accept that at the time, and Spike has been gone out of her life, whether or not she "knows" that he is alive or not in the comic right now.) Buffy actually knows this about herself. She has stated as much, like when she told Spike that she was feeling "vulnerable, ergo bad kissing decisions," after Giles left. Not that she wasn't atttracted to Spike, but her neediness and feelings of isolation caused her to give into her attraction for Spike, and the rest, as we say, is history. In this case, though,she has made possibly the worst one she has ever made in the history of the series, at least so far.

For some reason Joss and whatever other people-Mr. Meltzer, etc. have decided that they would go off in this direction. However, IMO, Buffy and Angel aren't just the Universes' b###ches, but the Universe's chumps, in more ways than one.
Comment by Spike's KittyKat on May 12, 2010 at 9:22pm
You know, these interviews and comics make Buffy look bad. Seriously it's making her appear like she was never able to get over Angel even after about 5 years maybe more...that's a long time to spend your life pining for someone and kind of makes the person appear pathetic in some ways especially since she's pining for someone she can never really be happy with.

So sure that illustrator wants to say Buffy wants Angel but I tend to think, even if she doesn't get with Spike, she was over Angel and had moved on with her life. I would rather see her be alone and accept her Slayer Destiny than get with Angel and live out some fake fantasy world that we know would last a month before they were unhappy again and he would leave her. He's a total walk away Joe when it comes to Buffy and surely Buffy knows this...So any happy ever scene they are given as Joss clearly stated comes at a cost and with Angel usually the cost is a broken heart. I just hate to think that Buffy still hasn't learned and has maintained that childish 17 year old viewpoint of Angel.
Comment by Lulurose on May 12, 2010 at 9:11pm
Well, it could be some of both. I guess-what he knows that he can discuss, and his own take on things, plus him discussing what he did as an illlustrator, as to his motivation, etc.
Comment by Itoy247 on May 12, 2010 at 7:54pm
i know he's just the illustrator...but he knows what's going to happen, doesn't he? i didn't mean that its his idea...i mean that he talks from what he knows
Comment by Lulurose on May 12, 2010 at 7:49pm
You're welcome. Yes, but he is just the illustrator, though, isn't he? I don't know if his opinion has any bearing on the actual story, unless either Mr. Meltzer or Joss takes his ideas into consideration, and I don't get the impression, myself, by what he says here that he does influence the story in any way. except in terms of his suggestions for how it should be illustrated. At least he does say that his ideas are not representative of DH or Joss, although I don't know what he would base the idea that Buffy preferring Angel is the intelligent thing to do, and not just a matter of following her "heart." I don't know why he would think that choosing Angel over Spike would be better for her in other ways besides emotionally. He seemed, though, to like Spike as a character, even if, for whatever reason, he apparently prefers Angel as Buffy's love interest.

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