I feel that Spike didn't need a soul to love Buffy like Angel did. And that says something great about him in my eyes. It says that he didn't fully lose his humanity and blame it on being turned into a Vampire. Buffy and Spike had a bumpy road but he was a fighter and he fought for her affection, even though he knew she didn't love him and never would. And he was ok with that. That's what I love about the character.

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To love Buffy? No.

Well that kind of means that Angel didn't love her neither. He was just as selfish as Spike was.

This was one of the big topics for discussion in the early days of the series - a great many viewers, myself included, felt that Spike showed the capacity to love without a soul.  I never felt that Spike needed a soul, like Angelus did to love - He loved Drusilla and Dawn without a soul and I think he loved Joyce as well.   He would not, IMO, endured all that torture at the hands of Glory if he did not love Buffy or Dawn with great depth.  

Exactly. That's why I love his character so much.

He was the only Vampire that was capable of thinking of others

Drusilla even said that they can love with out souls.

Spike & Drusilla were the only ones I seen show any kind of emotion.

I'm not saying Spike loved entirely "selflessly" without a soul, but I don't hold that against him, because I believe 99% of people with souls don't love selflessly either.

I do think we've seen other vampires capable of emotion besides Spike and Drusilla. Harmony is an important example, and we also have James and Elisabeth from AtS.

Oh yeah I forgot about Harmony.

She was exactly how she was before she died.

And I also liked the scene with Spike and his mother and he went as far as trying to turn her in to a vampire just so she wouldn't suffer any more.

It didn't work out but that makes me start to wonder and think (is their a fight against the Vampires and their sanity?)

like Sanity vs Insanity

DD - 

Thanks for the reminder of James and Elisabeth - I am going to watch that episode - it's been a very long time since I watched this one.  Plus I can watch the Buffy BF rewatch episode as well.  

I looking now at my two VHS boxes of Angel Seson 5 and Buffy Season 6 that I found at Amazon - they look super nice on my bookshelf.  I had the entire series on my home tapes but finally got rid of them all when the dvd were released.  What a change we have gone through from all those VHS tapes to being able to just purchase a download.  

latoya - 

have you seen the episode on James and Elizabeth?  If you have it why don't you watch it and we can discuss.  

The episode is in Angel Season 3 titled "Heartthrob."

Not sure how to view Drusilla and her capacity to love - I think she had feelings for Angelus - all her vampire family but what kind of love was it?  She was such a damaged characer.  Who can even begin to judge her and her relationships especially with Spike.  She went back to Angelus soon as he showed up sans his soul.  She, I won't say betrayed Spike for Angelus because I don't we can judge her on the same level as a sane character.  When Spike stakes Harmony in that cold blooded heartless killer mode - that is the ultimate betrayal the same goes for when Angel kills his sire Darla.  Irrespective of Angel doing it to save Buffy - from the perspective of Maker and Childe, it was a betrayal.  And the same goes in the opposite way when Darla rejects Angelus in China.

Vampires have a totally different understanding of how they live in a partnership relationship - it would be So Easy to say that we humans love better and wiser, but humans betray their lovers and family and friends as well.  


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Posted by cil domney on June 25, 2017 at 11:30am — 26 Comments

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