I know this is a debate that everyone feels strongly about
a lot of people feel that spuffy was just about sex which may have been true for season 6 but only because buffy felt dead inside and she needed someone to make her feel alive so she turned to spike who's love for her has always been true
i feel that buffy did love spike, we see this in the way that she cares for him when he is mental in the school basement and when she wants to help him when the first is using him even when her friends don't want him in the house
i also feel that you can tell buffy loves spike through dawn. buffy has died for dawn and feels that dawn is not just her sister but part of her, and time and time again the person who she trusts to look after dawn and keep dawn safe, is spike!
in season seven buffy and spike's bond is strengthened, she doesnt want him to go and when all her friends turn her back on her spike is the only one that is there for her and we see that there love is true in s7 ep "touched" whereas all the other couples are having sex buffy and spike spend the night just holding eachother
i have told you my opinion what is yours? was it just sex? did buffy love spike like she did angel?
OF COURSE SHE DID...SHE LOVED HIM MORE THAN ANY OF HER OTHER BOYFRIENDS...EVEN A
i think she was unable to admit it because if she admit that she loves him everyone will be all judging and blaming...she was unable to even admit or believe that HE LOVED HER because that would mean that soulless vampires can love and will make her ask a question she was avoiding for so long which is WHY DID Angel stop loving her when he lost he soul?? why couldn't he love her as Angelus?? was his love for her NOT strong enough???
so it was easier for her to believe that soulless vampires can not love at all
but she loved him...i think it started at the end of season five when she started looking at him differently, to see the man in him...and in season six...although it seems like it's all about sex but it wasn't...she did love him but denied it...i even think that realizing that she does love him was what scared her the most and made her break up with him...if you notice...the last time they slept together before the break up was the only time she asked him to tell her that he loves her...it was also the only time (as far as we know) they didn't miss the bed (LOL) it sort of indicates that maybe this time wasn't as violent...it wasn't just sex it was making love
and after that she admits that it hurt her that he brought a date to Xander's wedding .even if she knew well that he brought her just to make Buffy jealous.
there are millions of indicators that she loved through out season six and seven...and there's no question about his love for her of course
I wish I had time to write a big long answer but for now let me just say, she absolutely loved him. I feel she loved him differently than she loved Angel. Angel was a first love, first crush, and first heartbreak. She was so into Angel she lost who she was and what she was about. As she stated even herself, she couldn't stand loving Angel but couldn't function not doing so ("I love you so much... And I tried to make you go away... I killed you and it didn't help....And I hate it! I hate that it's *so* hard... and that you can hurt me *so* much." Amends). With Angel, she couldn't make good decisions and function but with Spike she was able to gather her strength and fight the good fight.(“ Do you see this? (holds up the scythe) This may actually help me fight my war. This might be the key to everything. And the reason I'm holding it is because of you. Because of the strength that you gave me last night.” End of the Days). So different kinds of love. I personally think Spike and Buffy's friendship binding love was much more powerful than a high school obsessive crush but that's just me.
But point is, Buffy did love Spike and it was proven in every action she did and how much she trusted him even when she claimed she didn't. It started back in Season 5 when she chose Spike to fight by her side and to protect her sister even over her best friends and Giles. She trusted Spike even when he was still injured to take care of her mother and Dawn. (She repeated that action in Season 6 in Seeing Red even after the bathroom scene bringing Dawn to Spike not more than an hour perhaps after he hurt her to protect Dawn). It continued when she constantly all through Season 6 went to him for help, guidance and to make her and Dawn's life better and got even stronger in Season 7 when she chose to risk her life again and again to save Spike knowing she couldn't live in this world alone without him.
Let me ask this of those who don't believe Buffy loved him: Would you fall asleep next to someone who you really didn't trust? Would you allow them to watch over your family members when you couldn’t? Even during that episode where she said she would never trust him, we see her later in that very episode rubbing her wrists because she did indeed trust him enough to handcuff her during sex. That’s big time trust in my eyes. Would you ask them to back you up in a fight, and share your hopes and fears with them if you didn’t love them? Would you constantly seek out someone who you didn't love trusting they would make everything ok? How about would you alienate your friends and family just to be near them? Would you risk your own life just to save theirs? Would you be willing to die by their side just because they had to die? And most importantly, would you be willing to be with them knowing it might cost you everything you were, are and will be?
More importantly, I believe even Season 6 was more than just sex. She opened up to him, ran to him for comfort and for advice. She trusted him with her life and the life of her friends and family. Spike learned how to make her feel better (“Put a little ice on the back of her neck…she likes that” Normal Again) and also knew her biggest secrets (“I was in Heaven and now I’m not” After Life). So I stand by my belief that yes Buffy loved Spike and I think she did for quite a while (“Why does everyone assume I’m still in love with Spike?” First Date)
Ok so that was kind of long. I just can’t help myself!
just a quick reply for now 'cause I'm watching "Castle" -
been watching some of the early Buffy-Angel episodes and what I keep seeing over and over is, as you said Spike's KittyKat - poor choices and decisions. Again, watching the Kendra comes to Sunnydale episodes. Buffy totally made the complete wrong calls because she is simply overwhelmed by this love and desparate need for Angel. If Kendra had not come to her rescue, both Buffy and her precious Angel would have been killed when Spike arranges for Dursilla's cure.
And Boy, does anyone else think the writers made Buffy completely insufferable in these episodes - she comes across as nothing but a self-centered brat in these two episodes.
The more I see these early seasons and the Buffy-Angel Forever Love Arc, I find that I dislike it more and more - perhaps it is because of my age, then and even more now, but these two come across as total sugar and cotton candy in their romantic scenes.
I completely agree. With every rewatching of the show, I see that Buffy and Angel were not in a healthy relationship at all. She was jeopardizing the safety of everyone around her, making poor decisions. Where was the trust? Angel was seemed to be holding back information and truths from Buffy. It was only if it appeared to be life or death or if he was called on it that he volunteered anything. I can't help but compare that to how Spike told Buffy about the slayers he killed and how he was turned with relative ease (sure he was paid, but u know he would have done it regardless). We never heard Angel share that much about himself with Buffy.
We just have to see the last three seasons for seeing and feeling this. Again, I could developping more my opinion, but I'm not as competent in English as in French.
But I just can say that I feel it many times... She protects him, she feels bad when she sees him with other girls (Anya, this girl at the wedding, and in season 7, the conversation in the 7x08 in Spike's room is just wonderful ♥ They really are as a couple. It sounds realistic), she needs him around her, she's herself with him, she turns to him each time, she trusts him more than anybody else (Giles feels this connection, and he doesn't like it - he feels that he's loosing his influence on his Slayer), she really has a connection with him...
When Xander is injuried by the demon girl in "First Date", she turns primarily to Spike ; her best friend was stabbed, but her first preoccupation is Spike.
I think season 6 was the 'foundation' of her feelings towards him (but she was lost in this season) and season 7 permits her to see better and understand better what she feels. We see repeatedly that she regrets her attitude towards him (she was as a monster with him, as she said herself). But in this season, her emotional context was better for developping her feelings for him.
I think she was really falling in love with him. And this love was more powerful than anything else, because they have seen the best as the worst of each other ; they know each other. Spuffy was the most honest of her relationship, because they never deceive each other. So when she said 'I love you' to him, it was just the truth, because she accepts him for who he is. It was beautiful and powerful.
In comparaison, Buffy and Angel can play with hyper-intensity how much they want, their love will not become more powerful or real to me, because I don’t see it in the facts. I find it really small and less symbolic. Because I just don't believe in their relationship and I don't feel this 'love'. I see hyper-intensity (and in psychologie, hyper-intensity is *not* love), I see melodrama, I see idealization, but I don't see a real love.
Spuffy was THE true love of the show in my opinion. Because they fall in love with each other for who they are. And yeah, she was falling in love with him. We see it, and we feel it.
When Buffy told Spike in "SEEING RED" that she had feelings for him..what did she really mean?
I think that Buffy really did like Spike in S6 (but it wasn't strong enough for love).. or why else would she get so upset when she found out that Spike slept with Anya. If she hated Spike, she would be furious with Anya like Xander for debasing herself to Spike right?
I think it was love but she was just so twisted inside and a mess after being having her love for Angel kill Jenny and ruin her life and after her friends had betrayed her and brought her back selfishly from Heaven to clean up their messes that she would never admitted it without some serious intervention. Even if she did admit it, honestly speaking even though I have written fanfiction that suggests otherwise, with the two of them being who they were in that point of time, a healthy relationship would have been beyond them. They could do friends and could do sex but they couldn't find the perfect balance of the two. The fact of the matter is, no matter how much Buffy felt for Spike or loved him, her peace of mind would not have allowed her to go on living with a soulless vampire after the damage Angel had done to her. Angel ruined that for her and for Spike and I don't think Buffy could have ever accepted that soulless vampires might be good. And this is why we have a twisted up Season 6 and I wish more people would see it that way instead of this way.
As much as I love Angel as a character he basically ruined Buffy for the rest of her life and if Spike hadn't of been who he was and willing to go get his soul for her peace of mind, I believe Buffy would have never been able to express her love for another male again (at least romantic type of love).
As for why Buffy was so upset, I don't think that was about love but more so jealousy. It was the same for Xander. I'm not saying Xander didnt' love Anya or Anya not love Xander or the same for Buffy and Spike but that whole scene was about wrongs and rights. Xander did wrong by Anya and Anya's screeching could have been Spike's words towards Buffy's actions with him. Spike would have never yelled at Buffy that way but if you take the speech out of context it could really be towards Buffy easy enough.
If Buffy hated Spike (which I don't know if she ever did really. I think she wanted him to stop killing her and causing havok hence why they fought without weapons mostly I might add) but anyway point is, if Buffy had hated Spike she would have never ended up where she was that day with Xander, Spike and Anya in the first place. The reason she ran was to save Spike from Xander. She turns around to find Xander gone to go after Spike. She panicks and runs with all her might to save Spike. She arrives within seconds tossing Xander to the side to place herself between Xander's stake and axe and Spike's body. That was about caring and not wanting Spike dead (but we already knew this from past experiences...IE Tabula Rasa where she herself declares that her life would be so much easier if she would only stop saving his life). What made it a big deal was that she was chosing Spike's side over Xander. She didn't toss the stake out of Xander's hand allowing him to beat up on Spike but instead tossed Xander saving Spike preventing Spike from being touched by Xander.
IMO for the record even if this took place back in Season 4 or 5 before she slept with Spike, I don't foresee Buffy being mad with anyone for debasing themselves to anyone even if it was Spike. Buffy just didn't seem to judge people that way and accepted things at face value. She might have made a comment about how dangerous is was or how stupid it was to sleep with a murderer but I don't think she would see it as something that would devalue someone. She never once said a word about Xander sleeping with an ex-vengeance demon or about Willow's choice to sleep with Oz. She just didn't seem to be built to judge others that way. Now her friends...they loved to judge others.
That's exactly how I see Angel and Spike relationship. Maybe it's a bit unconventional, but I really took it from the canon!
Updated version of the previously posted vid with some fixes (aspect ratio mostly).