I found the treatment for both these characters very peculiar - so much contrast between the first encounter and the last panel.  The Buffy ala Bitch is particularly interesting.  After all this time and never having seen Spike since her death sacrfice for her and the world, Spike greatest heroic/champion event, and after all their journey together, it is, IMO, such an incongruous encounter between these two. 

 

What are your thoughts on the Buffy & Spike reunion?  and how do you think it relates to the treatment very contrasting treatment of Buffy & Angel/Twangel? 

 

I invite all members who might be reading but not posting to please join in the discussion.

 

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I have posted some scans from the new issue 36 - the pages go from earliest, just after the parody Twilight cover and Jo Chen cover to last page of The Master. These are only some of the scans that I think are more important. Most of the first part of the issue are the preview images that were posted on other sites and all the Bangel Love Fest panels of which I posted only 2.

I am going on the assumption that the "Extremely Sweet" treatment will eventually be for contrast in a later development in the story. If any of this Buffy-Angel/Twangel Love Reunion is going to be the end of Cosmic Love, there really is, IMVHO, something is really strange in BuffyverseLand. Same can be said about Buffy's first encounter with Spike - this has to be done for contrast, otherwise Buffy is just the little self-centered, self-involved brat bitch that we have seen so many times with how she treats Spike. I am hoping that their last panels together are the truer statement of where their relationship stands now and not that first panel we get. This is not a Buffy that I think fits with the history of the series or the woman that Buffy should have become by now and after all that life and love has thrown at her.

The more I read this issue and more strange I find it - especially all that section with Buffy and Angel/Twangel, I mean does Buffy give a shit at all about what happened to all those people who have been killed because of what Angel/Twangel has chosen to do?

I'm also going with this Buffy quote "this is the weirdest, bestest, weirdest best day of my life" - to continue with weird Buffy talk:
to angel: "what you've done for me, I can't describe. I can't pronounce. You gave me perfection, and you gave it up. Jesus, Angel, that's not just the love of my life. That's the guy I would live it with"

Strange and Irony aside - we are getting the connections from Giles thoughts, at least I'm thinking that is Giles thoughts, on all the religious symbols. Does anyone recognize the constellations that are being used in the Angel-Guide Dog panels. I'm thinking Sirius and Orion but there is also Sirius connected to "the fleecy star, the ram." and a wolf 359 star.
I agree about the contrast. I am convinced we are not seeing the real Buffy here, but a Buffy whose feelings towards Angel have been hugely amplified, at the expense of her feelings towards all the others she would normally care about (and in particular Spike, to achieve said contrast). Somewhere in the next few issues we will see her true reaction to Angel and Spike both, I'm certain.
Double Dutchess said:
I agree about the contrast. I am convinced we are not seeing the real Buffy here, but a Buffy whose feelings towards Angel have been hugely amplified, at the expense of her feelings towards all the others she would normally care about (and in particular Spike, to achieve said contrast). Somewhere in the next few issues we will see her true reaction to Angel and Spike both, I'm certain.
Hope so, honey! :)
Unless the effect of whatever this is becomes permanent in some respects, thereby removing Angel's "curse" permanently, then-if there is the possibility that every time he and Buffy are intimate that it is such a joyous experince for Angel that he is in danger of "losing it"-he and Buffy will be right back at square one. We already know that Angel can be intimate with other women, and enjoy it(I assume)but he does not lose his soul.

I also end up wondering what Buffy knows about Angel's life that she learned "off screen". Does she know that he and Cordy were in the process of falling in love with each other, if circumstances had not conspired against them? Does she know that he and Darla had a "miracle" child, who should be barely school age, but is in his late teens/early twenties because he was kidnapped and taken to a hell dimension? If she doesn't, I wonder if Spike will inform her, especially about Angel getting horizontal with Nina over the months before they got sent to Hell A.

I keep on trying to "steele" myself for this stuff. Even if Buffy has come to the realization-even without the "glow"-that Angel is the guy that she feels the most for on every level, there was no excuse to treat Spike the way she did. The way it looks at the present time is that she is defensive about Angel, knowing that every one is angry at him, and disappointed in her. It seems like season 3 again, with her having to defend her relationship with Angel after the destruction he wrought as Angelus. It seems this time that his actions, though, even if he is being influenced by "whatever," were by his own choice. Granted, the first time Angel chose to be with Buffy physically, but he had never experienced the other part of the curse before, so it was something that he had knowledge about, but it was just that-just the awareness that he could lose his soul if he became blissfully happy, but he had never tested it until then, so he didn't know exactly what would cause the blissful happiness. We know that he and Darla did kiss when he tried to return to her after the curse, but we don't know if they did anything else. Going by the fact that on the Angel series Darla assumed that Angel would have such an extreme bedroom experience with her if she could seduce him that he would lose his soul permanently- and then that didn't happen-then it seems that maybe that Darla wasn't aware of that part of the curse way back when, especially if Angel and she were together but he didn't lose his soul afterward, but judging by what happened in the series, it seems that she just didn't know until she was in modern L A. When Angel was with Darla in L A he was so disillusioned that he was ready to lose his soul, since he thought it wasn't doing him any good, and thought that if they slept together he would lose his soul because it would be physical bliss. He found, of course, that it wasn't the physical pleasure that caused the bliss, but the emotional joy, and he told Darla that even though he felt the physical, emotionally all he felt was despair. I also feel that the reason that happened with Buffy was because he had never experienced that connection with anybody even when he was still human-because Liam was only interested in the physical part, womanizer that he was. I guess the elation that Angel felt was somewhere between what Spike and Buffy felt when they spent the night in each other's arms, and the physical manifestation of the fire between their clasped hands. However, by the things that Angel said, and by his actions, he was accepting of the destruction-again, while it was just a concept to him. When he was faced with seeing it along with Buffy, all his explanation started to appear as the flimsy excuse it actually was, and Buffy was not willing to stay safe with him, and she couldn't be happy knowing that her other loved ones were being destroyed, especially if she didn't even try to save them.

I am in agreement that things just don't add up concerning Buffy's behavior. She actually seemed to be indicating to Angel that she might be ready to hand over her duties to some other slayer, or slayers, and spend the rest of her life with him, and she doesn't really know if that is even still going to be possible-and I am not just talking about whether or not they both survived this onslought. The "heart" theory is very interesting. There is a certain amount of logic to it. I wonder though, if she lost anything, it wasn't the mystical exchange with Spike, but what she "gave away" to the other slayers. Maybe losing some of that power affected her moral compass somehow, and when she gave away her strength, that also included, as a very big downside, her strength of character.

Buffy is going to have to suffer a terrible, emotional crushing blow. I know that there was that foreshadowing of Buffy crumpled and weeping, but I think it would be very emotionally effective for Giles to let her have it. I know that Spike often was "the herald of truth," and we have seen him fill that role to a degree already, concerning going to Sunnydale and this "egg". However, Spike cannot be totally effective when it comes to her relationship with Angel because he will only be judged by Buffy as being petty and jealous. Giles would be the prime candidate because, out of all of them, he suffered the most the first time that they, as a group, had to deal with the consequences of Buffy and Angel's "bad decisions", as Mr. Allie, the DH editor, actuallly aptly described things. Giles lost someone very dear to him-Jenny Calendar. I would love to see Giles tell Buffy something along the lines of "How many people are going to have to die every time you and Angel decide that you have to be together?" That would cut Buffy to the quick, because she would know that its the tragic truth, having been borne out not once, but twice now.

Just some further thoughts.
My reaction to the Buffy/Spike reunion:

Spike: She wouldn't even kill me. She just left. She didn't even care enough to cut off my head or
set me on fire. (sniffs) I mean, is that too much to ask? You know? Some little sign that she cared?
Lovers Walk

There's not one single clue in the entire issue that Buffy cared about Spike. Yes, she thanks him for the Chosen sacrifice and shows she knows him very well (no snark, no funny remarks, etc) How come she didn't mention "no hurt feelings". She's down to business because she knows he can take it (doesn't need any pampering like that Angel dude).

After Spike mentioned "baby universe" coming for mummy, Buffy is frightened and needs comfort from Willow. You little girl, now are you scared?

I hope somethings wrong with Buffy's heart, because if it's not, then she never ever loved Spike. Not in the shows. Only in Something Blue under the spell. If nothing's wrong with her, then Spuffy's dead to me and Buffy can take her Angel and go living wherever they want, far away from my Spike.
I have not had a chance to spend much time over at Slayalive - but I understand that Scott Allie does state that Buffy is being effected by the green glo, both she and Angel/Twangel.

Buffy and Angel will more than likely get the "clean up" treatment because after all "the devil or glo god made me do it."

I'm sure that the next issues will give a very different characterization and perspective on what is really happening. One thing we know for sure is that Angel/Twangel has been choosing to follow orders and plans for a very long time. Also, Spike and Angel/Twangel have the same "portal entry" visuals.

The first encounter shown of Buffy and Spike is like we went right back to her treatment of him before Season 7 -
From the body language and script in panel where Buffy comes into the ship, what I get is the sense that all that 95% lovey-dovey stuff with Angel/Twangel is subterfuge - Buffy is not a happy camper in this panel and she calls Warren and Amy "his henchmen."
Here is a Q&A session with Georges Jeanty
http://slayaliveforums.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=qa&action=...
You can ask him questions...
And I'm coping here a quote of AndrewCrossett's post about S. Allie's new "involuntary" mistake:
To be fair, Scott didn't spell out whether the mistake was in saying Spike was a former vampire, or in revealing that he was. :)

But if it's the latter, Georges of course wouldn't be able to say.

(I will mention that Spike was hanging on the outside of his ship when it came through the portal, presumably from some other dimension... if it happened to be daylight at the time in London, he would have been dusty Spike. Seems pretty reckless for a vampire.)

And why he was hanging outside the ship? The ship has been chased by someone (the wankers! LOL) Isn't more safety for him to being INSIDE the ship, than outside?! Angel obliviously is not longer a vampire - he's flying into the daylight, he's indestructible... What if Spike has got the same superpowers like Buffy and Angel? And I've noticed in the cover of issue 38 he's fighting with the army of demons in bare hands...
Allie said 'affect their judgment" not their feelings (Meltzer and Jeanty insisted on feelings) a.k.a. Buffy frakked Angel because she loved him, not in spite of his killings. Bad logic doesn't alter Universal Laws, only gets consequences, the Law is Buffy loves Angel the bestest, soryy but for me spuffy is dead.
Another Emmie/Angearia's speculation about Spuffy:
http://angearia.livejournal.com/169105.html?style=mine#cutid1
The intro to issue #36 calls Spike a "former vampire." Is he not a vampire anymore?

Anyone have any further info on this? Spike is in the daylight when he is on the outside of the ship.
Unless it is meant as a misdirection, Scott A. said that it was a misprint that they didn't catch until it had been printed.

cil domney said:
The intro to issue #36 calls Spike a "former vampire." Is he not a vampire anymore?

Anyone have any further info on this? Spike is in the daylight when he is on the outside of the ship.

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