I don't know how many times I'll start on a story looking forward to something and it's one of those craptastic pieces that is written to be just kind of evil. I get that there is a perversion out there for everyone but I have to ask who are these people that enjoy reading stories where the good guy not only wins but degrades and degenerates the hero. 

Just yesterday I read this POS fic. The great thing about freedom of speech is you can say what you want. Even if it is total garbage.  Anyways this fic had Warren reworking his Cereberal Dampaner. And this time he uses it on Buffy. Needless to say what he does to her. But he takes it further by using Buffy as his own slave and soldier to his mission. In this fic she kills Spike. Then she takes the same item that is enslaving her and uses it to enslave Dawn Tara Anya and her sister.  They end the fic with Buffy snapping Xander's neck and Warren moving in to Buffy's ordering all of the girls to make out and using Dawn as his human footstool.  

One fic I read once had Xander as a vampire. He used his soldier memories to develop a superior military strategy to sire all his friends leaving Buffy as the only non vampire. The end of the fic had Xander implementing vampires with in the initiative with in the government and eventually the presidency.  The fic ends with Buffy chained and wondering how she got to this world she calls hell and how long till she can die cause it's the only escape.

It just bothers/pisses me off that people have to take something as good as Buffy and twist it and turn it to something perverse  boarderline evil.  

I use this craptastic piece of work as just one example cause the truth is there is ton of this crap out there.  I'm just like who the hell are you people that want to read this. That want your hero to be disrespected so disgustingly.  

My friend says that it's woman haters who write that crap.  Some men just hate the idea of someone like Buffy being so strong and so powerful and feel better if they can knock her down a peg or two. Now I am a guy myself  and I have to say I've never felt that way. 

Want to hear from you guys. What is your opinion on this. Is there a place for all Fan Fiction? Even the stuff that seems to insult or degrade the original idea of Buffy?



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Having to confront your own ideals on censorship can come from the most un-looked for places.  Little did I know that this would happen to me from reading a Buffyverse Fan Fiction.  I started reading a story several years ago that was extremely disturbing to me based on a Dawn-Spike relationship.   My dislike came from several aspects of the work, but primarily what I objected to was use of a character without any exploration of the very complex emotional and psychological motivations of the actions taken by the character.   I read a story one time that had Buffy and Angel acting as emotional vampires like leeches living of the life of another being.  What was seen as a perfectly reasonable resolution for the writer, to me was such a horrendous concept but that story really made me think about the passions and self-centered needs of people.   So yes, as Lulurose states "Well, in the final analysis, since quality is subjective, one person's crap can be considered by someone else to be a masterpiece." 


Both these stories made me think about censorship, personal likes and personal life experiences.  People who have experienced pain and abuse, especially in childhood and early life,  will always respond to creative works and situations through the filter of their life experiences.  And as much as I totally disliked the works,  I was forced to  confront my own "personal life experience response filter" and censorship.  As much as I disliked these stories,  I realized that other readers would have a very different response and would like the works and would find nothing wrong with the writer's treatment of characters or premise. 


Holdt is right - works of literature or other creative forms and human language can only make a person do horrible and insane actions if there is already existing fertile ground for that kind of response. 

Great posts,Holdt!

XH, you're annoyed by the people who write DarkFic.

You're annoyed by the fans that ship Spuffy and love Spike.

You're annoyed by the fans that ship Bangel and love Angel.

You're annoyed by the vampires and by the people who love them.

You're annoyed by the authors that didn't give to Xander a big role and made him a comic relief (Ohhh, many thanks to them!!! LOL)

You're annoyed by the fans that can't get how "great"  ship Banger is (or uh… could be)…

I think this is a lot of annoyance by someone who is "a huge fan of freedom of speech".

Once again these fan fiction are for everyone, if you don't like a stuff like that, just don't read it. I think there are some fics where Xander is a big great hero and champion and he is beating bunch of vamps every day and saving the world every month and where Buffy is totally in love with him and making moony eyes to him. Personally I wouldn't read a crap like that, because I don't take any interest at Xander or Bander centric FF, but I wouldn't be annoyed if some people love to write/read such things. People are different with different tastes and preferences.  Usually these reading/ writing preferences have nothing to do with the religion, racism or even with the personality of the riders/writers.

I get it people can read what they want. If tomorrow someone decided they wanted to write a story where Spike and or Angel decide they want to marry Buffy and have a bazillion kids that is fine. I won't read that. It doesn't directly have any real effect on the world one way or the other.  

What I am saying is the written word is powerful It can be used to free or oppress. Now it was said yesterday someone that has tendencies already in them is going to do it with or with out the dark fic. If I am a raging Alcoholic do I have a better chance of staying clean if I live above a liquor store on out in the country. If you are truly honest the answer is going to be the country.  You can't use the excuse that because the alcoholic has tendencies that he's going to fail People have quit drinking and never gone back.  I know contrary to what many people think I am a huge proponent of free speech. Without it so many amazing things this country has fought for and stood for wouldn't exist.  Last thing I want to say is to Veiriti.

Please don't try to turn this personal against me. You start to state things about me that are false or half truths. I am annoyed by Spuffy or Bangle fans at all. Quite contrary I have had some amazing discussion with them and consider them to be friends.  Just because I don't drink someones flavor cola doesn't mean I run and hide with only people who drink my flavor. As for the other things like me annoyed by some of the Xander lacking story themes. Show me a fan that doesn't have a single grievance.  

Xander Hoffman said:
If I am a raging Alcoholic do I have a better chance of staying clean if I live above a liquor store on out in the country. If you are truly honest the answer is going to be the country..  

Sure. But would you want to forbid people to run liquor stores because of that? It's not the store owner's fault if the alcoholic decides to take up lodging above his store. Knives can be used to hurt people, so maybe they should no longer be produced? Or what about violent video games? Many people use religious texts as an excuse for hate and violence. Should we ban those texts too? Etc. etc.

In short, we are surrounded with things that carry a potential danger for abuse by people with bad tendencies. Forbidding those things in an attempt to eliminate these risks is not the way to go.

(LOL, I almost feel like I'm pleading against gun control here -- that'll be the day :-)

This is a extremely interesting topic but it is also a very complex theme - PLEASE let's keep this focused on the theme and respectful of all our members.


Thanks to posting your ideas to all -


Regarding question of what is most helpful, the model being an alcoholic, that is strictly a matter of personal responsibility and person involved.  My sister is an alcoholic, and has been sober for many years now.  She has to work at it all the time, but she has also always lived in a large urban environment with plenty of places where alcohol is easily purchased.  It makes no difference for her, for other people it would perhaps make a difference.  It's, IMO, all about the individual.  Same goes for darkfic or porn or Lawrence Welk - there is nothing that makes a person read or watch but themselves.  Well, except when you a kid and your parents loved LW and if you wanted to watch TV while his show aired. 
Cil I congratulate your sister on her success with over coming her demons. I've seen what alcoholism can do and I applaud her. I just want this point to be done cause I made this on a day when I was frustrated and never meant for this to become contentious. You are right. There are people out there who could read what ever and be totally un effected. The majority of the world could I just worry or obsess over that small insignificant minority. That one twisted individual who just read something that got him turned on and now needs to find a way to get himself off.  

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